But remember, there was a ceasefire on October

6 that Hamas broke by their barbaric assault

on peaceful civilians and their kidnapping.

They're killing, they're beheading,

their terrible, inhumane savagery.

There was a ceasefire.

It did not hold because Hamas chose to break it.

So you have to keep several things

in your head at the same time.

And that is, number one.

Hamas is a terrorist organization.

It has made very clear it is committed to

the elimination of the State of Israel, and it

has consistently broken ceasefires over a number of years.

Israel has a right to defend

itself, as any country would.

Ukraine has a right to defend itself against

an invasion, an unlawful, inhumane invasion by Russia.

And Israel should conduct itself by the

laws of war and do everything it

can to prevent and limit civilian casualties.

Those three things are all true themselves.

And so when I said a couple of weeks ago

that it wasn't time for a ceasefire because it would

enable Hamas to rearm and reposition, because I've been to

Gaza, and Gaza is a highly populated urban environment, and

what has been going on now for a number of

years under Hamas rule, is the building of over 200

miles of tunnels under Gaza, the storing of munitions, all

kinds of explosives under hospitals, under refugee camps, under civilian

targets, the use of civilians as really just tools of

war by Hamas.

That has all been going on.

And so when I said you could not

have a ceased fire, people didn't understand that

Hamas would use it for their own purposes.

I think we're now moving toward a position

where the idea of these humanitarian pauses that

the Biden administration has been promoting are now,

I think, on the table and should be.

And what would that mean?

Well, first of all, let's remember over 240 innocent

people, not just Israelis, people from other countries.

The second biggest number of people taken by Hamas

are workers from Thailand who were working in agriculture.

So this is a multinational hostage situation.

A humanitarian pause would enable two things to happen if

Hamas would agree, and that is let the hostages go.

These are innocent civilian people.

They should not be held as captives to Hamas

and let in more humanitarian aid that actually gets

where it's intended, not into the hands of Hamas.

So if we work on all of that, I think

it's possible, given where the current situation is, because the

Israelis are now in Gaza with ground troops, they have

cut off the north from the south.

They have surrounded Gaza City, which is the

central command structure of the Hamas militants.

So I think now would be a

good time to consider doing that.

But a ceasefire done prematurely benefits those who do

not abide by any laws, by any rules, by

any human character value, about the value of life.

So it was much too premature.

Now, I think the pauses should be considered. Right.

Well, let me ask you this, because the

ceasefire option, or at least the humanitarian pauses,

is a very popular concept, not only in

this country but around the world, because we're

seeing the death of at least 10,000 innocent

Palestinian civilians and half of those are children.

Yeah.

So former President Obama said, quote, and collective

punishment is against international human rights law.

So former President Obama said, quote, if you want to solve

the problem, then you have to take in the whole truth

and you then have to admit nobody's hands are clean here,

that all of us are complicit to some degree.

Is that, in your view, a wake up call for Democrats?

A lot of the international community agrees with him.

Do you agree that the Israeli government as well as

the US are part of the problem as well?

Well, I think that the problem predates October 7.

And I think that's what

President Obama was talking about.

Because let's remember, this is a

very long and complicated history.

My husband, with the Israeli government at the time,

in 2000, offered a Palestinian state to the Palestinians

at that time run by Arafat, Yuser Arafat and

the PLO, the Palestinian Liberation Organization, which, by the

way, took out of its charter violence against Israel.

So you've got to separate the Palestinians who believe

that there is some future of peace with Hamas,

which believes it has to destroy Israel.

Those are two different organizations and they

have to be viewed in that way.

Arafat turned that down.

There would have been a Palestinian state now for 23

years if he had not walked away from it.

There was another attempt when I was

secretary of state to try to bring

the Palestinians and the Israelis together.

That didn't work out.

Israel left Gaza in 2005 just and forcibly

ejected 50,000 Israelis who were living in Gaza.

They left all of their infrastructure.

They had a big infrastructure of greenhouses where

they were supplying fruits, vegetables, flowers, et cetera.

And the Palestinians deserved to have

a productive, successful economy in Gaza.

Hamas came in and basically destroyed all of

that and killed a lot of other Palestinians.

So I think when President Obama says that, it requires us

to look at the history, and of course, history holds all

of us accountable, and that is a fair statement.

But today we have to look at where we are.

And I believe it's imperative, since we have had numerous

ceasefires with Hamas, all of which they have violated, to

try, finally to dislodge Hamas and allow the Palestinians to

have other leadership that will actually once again work for

a two state solution, which should be the outcome that

we all hope and pray.

You know, it's what's funny.

The biggest deal when I think about all

of this, know, I think about Anwasadat.

For me, he was a beacon.

If you don't know who he was, look him up.

He was somebody who felt that there was a

better way for everybody to exist in Israel.

Wolfie, can I say something?

Because that's a really important point.

Israel and Egypt fought wars.

That's part of this complex history that

people need to educate ourselves about.

And after fighting wars, Sadat went to

Israel and made peace with the then

current Israeli government, and that ended.

That's why you see the current Egyptian government

working to try to get supplies into Gaza,

to try to get civilians and foreign nationals

and wounded people out of Gaza.

So there's a working relationship

now between Egypt and Israel.

Jordan and Israel made a peace agreement.

I was there to see that happen.

So people should not get hopeless.

There is hope, but you have to remove from the

scene terrorists like Hamas who don't believe in peace.

They don't believe in it for their own people.

They are using their own people as shields, and they

don't believe that it's possible to do with Israel.

Let's try to have people who can lead us to peace.